Urzasmurf 01/06/2012 03:26
Just wanted to add some thoughts below. First thing to know is that this game is still fairly buggy. I had points where my character's xp got stuck one level below max, I had spells I shouldnt have had (Still could cast mass weakness even after scroll was used), and other such bugs. However, the game does work well enough to play now and its still a great game. I hope they keep this format for the game and just add back visual towns and iron out the code as the bugs are the main problem now. In my view there are quite a few useless skills as well that need to be reworked (Example - Warlord Command). The story was also fairly good and I enjoyed it.
This is what I can say about skills for use in campaigns and not for player vs player. You will need 4 plans for your characters:
1) Start of game plan to fight neutral stacks.
2) Middle and End game plan to fight enemy heroes.
3) A way to nullify the strongest stack of an enemy hero.
4) A way to heal losses.
1) In my view all non-necro characters that have access to it should get heal, mass heal, regeneration, and mass regeneration. These spells are all star to keep your losses down. Even if you fight powerful stacks with hundreds or thousands of units you can always wittle a shooter or unit with no retaliation sown. No retaliate units are great because your units wont retaliate and kill them which keeps them alive. Then you cast heal and regeneration over and over.
2) Life Drain and Life Drain mass are just plain awesome as long as you fight living units. Get em no hesitation if available. These dynasty weapon Arache is also awesome for this reason but mine was still buggy giving 495% instead of 15%. Be careful if you use this weapon as if yours is buggy like mine then its just the staple EASY button.
3) You can also use Time Stasis/Blindess/Petrify to nullify the last unit of a hero and it skips the heros turn as well giving you time to heal units. This can also be used on the last unit of a neutral stack if you already killed all the shooters or no retaliation units. Time Stasis and Blindess and Petrify are great choices for magic characters to nullify powerful stacks as well. Very useful spells all around.
4) Thoughts on specific skills:
A) Storm Arrows is fantastic for sanctuary with the air/water things built. So is water/air elemental. I was getting stacks with 100 in some maps.
B) Summon elemental spells are a great way to fight neutral stacks in the first of the game and can be used to distract neutral and hero stacks as they seem to love to beat on them. Summon water and summon air elemental are great choices for sanctuary heroes which combos with buildings they make. They are also esp powerful with the Focus Magic perk from the dynasty weapon Staff of Asha Eightfold which doubles the initial summon. All secondary heroes should get some summons to be able to fight neutral stacks at start of game.
C) Meditation is overpowered. Proper use of it and you will have a hard time ever running out of mana.
D) I loved cleave for might hero. Its fun in general and devastating with marksmen.
E) Destiny Bonus. This is a great passive to get for any race but especially for inferno.
F) Leadership Bonus. This is a good passive to get for any race but necro and is especially good for haven. Note that some abilities will make the bonus from this look rather small so its not as good as destiny bonus in my view.
G) Might Bonus. This is a solid choice for heroes with might creatures.
H) Might Defense. Another sold choice.
I) Magic Defense. This is one of the weaker passives but it is still useful if you are facing magic heroes or creatures.
J) Reinforcements is free and is quite good especially on your protected shooters.
K) Retribution Aura III read was good but I kept finding myself casting other spells instead of it.
L) Mass Celestial Armor is like a free 1 turn invulnerability. Get it if possible.
M) Terror is not as good as Time Stasis or Blindess or Petrify. Definititely not the most powerful spell in my games. Not even in my top 3. That was hands down Time Stasis with runner up Mass Life Drain and third place Regeneration.
N) Counterstrike Tree for a might hero is a must.
O) Archery and Toughness Tree you can get as a last resort if you have nothing else to get. I wouldnt get them early. Much better things to get than this.
P) Rampage is useful for long drawn out battles but its not an all star. Maybe get it at high level if your lost on what to get.
Q) Diplomat I tested and it dint seem to do anything at all useful. Skip for sure.
R) Puppet Master. This spell is fantastic when it works but its buggy and may make your game crash. Avoid equipping the shadow comb as that item will break the game.
5) Damaging spells give you a good option to fight neutral stacks/heroes at the start of the game but quickly lose power the more time that passes. I prefer summon spells over them as summon spells can be good in middlegame to distract shooters and enemies. They will try to gang kill them buying you time for your other units. Dont underestimate them in some situations though. With sanctuary and blood rep and soaked and sanctuary water/air building you can do some impressive damage.
6) Buff spells are better than damaging spells for the middle and end game when you have many creatures. The buff spells I used was Inner Fire, Heroism, Stone Skin, Burning Determination, Ice Armor ect. These are all good. I dint find myself having the time or inclination to get curse spells so I cant comment on them. Spells like weakness, and agony, and such. I preferred to make my own creatures buff.
7) Dynasty Weapons
A) For magic characters the best weapon by far for me was the Staff of Sasha Eightfold. The last ability of double power of first spell is just fantastic. It combos so nice with summon elementals, buff spells, or to even save it for a double mass heal or mass regeneration.
B) For might characters the best weapon for me was the Arachne when it worked right (it got bugged and was too good) and then I switched to Sword of the Griffon to avoid using the I WIN Arachne. The Sword of Griffon has a nice final ability as well. Give the unlimited retaliation to your mega strong unit that you cast the stone skin, drain life, and ice armor on and moved into the frey. Semi-invincible, notstop retaliating, life draining Kirins anyone?
C) Leveling dynasty weapons is a chore and dint seem to work correctly for me. I would fight stacks with thousands of neutral units and only get 15k XP for example. I have no idea how this one is supposed to work.
8) The shadow comb (adds puppet master) will break your game most the time it is equipped. You will find that the hero that equips it will not be able to interact with stacks.
9) Hero info
A) Your main character should be all about battle except for a few exceptions. The skills Logistics and Pathfinding are worth it. You will need these to catch up to enemy heroes and sometimes you will have a point where if you cant use a town portal you will lose a town. Logistics helps with this. This is also the reason to keep the +8 boot to use while you move and another boot for critical battles. These also let you explore faster. Mobility is very key in the game. I think this skill should be put back to the older skills with 3 tiers and 10% per tier so at Logistics III you have 30% more movement.
Skills not worth it that many ppl get are as follows:
1) Enlightenment. You will not have a problem maxing any of your heroes by the end of the map.
2) Anything to do with economy. Have a secondary hero get these.
3) Specialized magic power. You are better off in my view getting the prime magic power bonus that applies to all magic schools. All of these bonuses are small enough that in my view you want more passive bonuses instead of them like destiny and leadership.
4) Magic Affinity II and III. You just dont need these with dragon nexus and meditation.
5) Mentoring. All creatures you can buy in tavern level to some degree as your main character does so this isnt needed. I got it one time and regretted it later. Marginal at best.
B) You secondary heroes should get a couple spells to fight neutral stacks at start of game and then get all economy abilities and scouting abilities. Also stack them up with resource or gold generating artifacts. One of your secondary heroes you may want to have a battle focus and just some of the economy things that are critical like extra marketplace. Give this hero just enough units to kill the pesky weak heroes the AI will send out that you dont want your main hero to have to track down.
10) Traits: I loved the 50% movement for town portal, +3 movement, and the creature production ones. Other ones have uses in specific instances like inferno heroes like fanatic.
Hope this helps. Hope this isnt a double post as I couldnt see it on post.
this post has been modified by its author [2012-06-01 04:33:26]
Fungames 25/04/2012 16:52
There are a few things I'd like to point in the guide:
First of all, I cannot really find anywhere what do various effects do, such as "soaked", "stunned", "dazed", "frozen" etc.
Of course, you can look it in game, but shouldn't a serious guide provide a glossary of such terms, effects that affect units?
Secondly, guide lacks heroes' special traits and faction heroic strike glossaries as well.
Now, for the last, I treat this as a whole: your description of units and abilities.
Lets start with strategies - if you had provided the definition of soaked effect, it would be obvious for many, that it is only natural for Sanctuary, which has some units striking with soaked, to mix with magic hero that uses Air.
Then, you should also tell player of faction abilities, in more detail. For an instance, I notice that Haven greatly contributes from high morale, as their faction ability bar is filled if any unit gets high morale buff. This is why they really should have Might hero with Heroism/Mass Heroism or Magic hero with Burning Determination/Mass BD from Fire Magic.
Then, another thing is, you're very supportive of some abilities and you ignore others.
If I were to make guide, starting from your Warrior's abilities part 1 an onwards:
Diplomacy - A MUST for any, who wants to make Tears hero. Not exceptionally powerful, but there's no other way you want to get Tears rep other than sparing lives/diplomacy.
Enlightment/Mentalist - A MUST for any main hero. You're obviously going to have two - one for fights and the other one for economics, that's why you really need Mentalist. Enlightment is pretty self-explanatory, it boost exp gain pretty well.
Logistics/Snatch/Pathfinder/Architect I, II, III/Economist I,II,III - A must for 2nd hero for various reasons. Back to the Economist II, another marketplace is very good, it's not "only worthful thanks to it's higher level".
Scouting I,II,III - useful for 2nd hero, but priority are mentioned earlier.
Plunder/Sabotage mine - Again, I completelly do not agree with your guide. Plundering/Sabotaging mines DOES NOT use ALL of the movement points. It's very useful for your second hero, provided he has Logistics/Pathfinding/Scouting, in order to escape from pursuit, to see enemy hero from afar etc.
Duck and cover - Speak for yourself, vs AI it's weak, but it's great when playing with competetive player.
Battle March - It's especially good for Stronghold units which literally rush enemy walls.
Ambush - Like above.
Tactics I - It is useless with rank I but...
Tactics II - ...it doesn't matter you dont see the enemy. It's like +2/3 move for your rush attackers, allows harpies in Stronghold to attack 1st turn without retalation etc. A must for Stronghold.
Siege Master I,II,III - Only the 3rd is worth a little, when vs player all of them are poor.
Evasive Maneuvers - It's not "first two turns". It's an active ability, reduces damage on ALL YOUR UNITS FOR 2 TURNS. I treat it as one of the best Might defensive techniques...
Intimidation - Depends on the situation. I wouldn't call it really bad.
Stand Your Ground - The mass version is quite good.
Taunt - Great ability.
Rush! - Great combo with Sun Riders/Crusaders and Sanctuary Blood rep ability. Otherwise, it's mediocre.
Heroism/Mass H - Obviously, one of the best abilities, a must in Haven.
Flawless attack - Good for units with big range between min and max dmg, such as Mauler/Crusher in Stronghold.
Pressed attack - You really underestimate this ability. It's best ability up to 5th level in Might, if not in all the trees, both Might, Realm, Magic etc. Allows you to make even better use of your Heroic Strike faction ability, use it twice on the 2nd turn... It even stacks with 2nd attack from morale boost. A great ability for any faction with Might Hero and REALLY A MUST for Haven, which focuses on morale and therefore, greatly contributes with combo of Pressed Attack + 2nd attack from morale buff.
Note: Somehow, this ability DOES NOT stack with Crusher's 2nd attack or Twin Fang Sanctuary Blood rep ability.
Counterstrike I - It is not worth.
Counterstrike II - A passive Stand your Ground without def bonus for first 4 turns? Crap.
Counterstrike III - Units will counterattack ONCE each enemy, not twice, they only have one more counterattack at all during enemy turn. Therefore, it's medium-good, considering that it's level 15 ability and you almost *waste* 2 points to get it.
Parry - There really are a few units which stop retalation. It depends who you fight with. (it's good vs Stronghold)
Toughness I,II,III - Quite weak.
Archery I - Bonus changes with level, it's good in factions with shooters, especially Necropolis.
Archery II - Easy to counter vs player, otherwise it's quite good.
Archery III - Not bad, those Skeletons/Goblins/Breeders could use it.
Magic - Air
Summon Air Elemental - Starting with this one, I think, that summoning elementals is worth it. It's just that I rarelly take Tears, and that's why I never use them. The ammount depends on your magic power, that's why I think it can be worth, not 'rather than boosting your army', but as another spell after you boost.
Grounded - Only useful for sieges, as a defender.
Storm Arrows - The bonus obviously depends on you magic power, and to be honest, it's not the best, even starting Might warcries are better, (Heroism) as they give morale too. But it's worth with 'soaked' effect, if you have it up your sleeve.
Lighting - Soaked effect makes it extremelly good, even better than Primal's Implosion.
Chain Lighting - Soaked effect and Thunderclap make it the best offensive spell in game. Nuff said.
Now, when the nature of spells is concerned, it is true, that later your buffs/curses are much more powerful than damaging spells, as they contribute from number of units, not spell power which grows much slower.
But I dont think that damaging spells are weak, or that they cannot be substitute for buffs. They obviously have various uses. Damaging spells cannot be dispelled, unlike buffs/curses :>
Burning determination - As I said, A MUST for haven, pretty good for any other faction besides Necropolis.
Fire shield - I just cannot stop wondering why, why, why haven't you mentioned combo of Fire Shield + Juggernaut/Ravager? It's obviously the best, only, and incredibly powerful use of this spell.
Fire bolt/Fireball/Firestorm - Really, Immolation makes those spells just as equal to buffing units.
Frenzy - There are a few units which can resist mind effects, but... Are you out of your mind yourself?! Berserk was like the best spell of Heroes III of Might and Magic. I don't know whether it last for longer than a turn, but Frenzy is just GODDAMN powerful. One enemy unit looses it's turn, and what's more, it attacks the closest unit to it, much often enemy! You're seriously underestimating this spell.
Mass Regeneration - "Not very useful at this stage of game" my ass. The strongest healing spell in game, much better than Mass Vampirism which doesn't work if the enemy is non-living (such as another Necropolis army). A must for anyone who specialises in Earth Magic.
Rockwalls - I think it has better ratio of spell power than Ice Wall, but nevertheless, it's quite useless.
Stone Skin/Mass Stoneskin - Vast majority of damage in Heroes is Might. (not to say it counters Might heroes). It's very powerful, similar to Might's Evasive Manouvers. Obviously, take it if you specialise in Earth.
Poison Cloud - It needs true wisdom to use this spell, but it's worth it. I think it's the best damaging spell in game, (in terms of mana economy) as it last till the end of the battle.
Ice Armor/Mass IA - Quite useful, especially for Sanctuary vs Stronghold. And that's because Sanctuary tactic is to wait with every unit possible to get their effect, while Stronghold has often enough initiative and speed (and tactics I/II) to attack just in 1st turn.
Ice Wall - I think you underestimate this spell as well. I wouldn't use it as a cover, (though it is useful in sieges) rather to slow enemy units and block them. (especially big ones, since most of them do not fly)
Frozen Ground - 3x3 field of loosing turn for enemy units? Priceless, really. A must.
Blizzard - I doubt that enemy wont move, since it last for 2 turns. Cannot really tell if useful or not, but it has big area of effect (4x4). Can be useful to defend walls, I guess.
Ice Bolt + Ice Breaker = Big, big combo. It's true that it's probably the only spell which causes frozen effect, but it would be too good otherwise. I think it's very powerful.
Circle of Winter - Quite better than Blizzard I suppose. Can chill up to 3 units on 1st turn, I think it's useful.
Mass Weakness - It has quite weak ratio, and I don't like Tears on Necropolis.
Summon Darkness Elemental - Darkness Elementals are incredibly powerful. 45 isn't such a big mana cost you know.
Terror - I don't know whether the debuff lasts for longer than a turn, if not, I wouldn't recommend it for the title of Best Spell in Game.
Mass Agony - It deals damage depending on your magic power. '43' is the ammount it deals in one turn, it strikes 3 times and all enemy units. Definetelly worth it, a must.
Puppet Master - A weaker version of Frenzy, I suppose.
Mass Despair - A must vs Haven. Quite good on others I guess.
Summon Light Elementals - Big ammount, Cleansing Light, (dispell buffs/debuffs) Epiphany, (retaliate to all enemy adjacent troops, heal adjacent friendly troops) Pain Mirror, (returns % of melee damage) Searing Light, (blinds enemy unit, takes % of health from L Element.) Speed of Light (no retalation on L.E. attakcs) You've got to be kidding me, not to summon those incredible bruisers. Not to say, many units are vurnable to light damage. Seriously. Take them.
Sunburst - AoE (3x3) damage. I know it's weak, but many creatures are vurnable to light. It's okay for me.
Then, lastly, some things lack your comment. Like Blood/Tears rep abilities. Some are really useless, some are powerful.
I'd call this guide OK. It's not best - units are described more like a glossary than a good commentary on tactics and special tricks/combos. I also did not agree on most of your comments on abilities.
That's all. Thanks for your guide - it is really much clearer than http://mmh6.info/en/abilities .
Although you could've made more effort, a glossary of effects would be much appreciated.
this post has been modified by its author [2012-04-25 17:58:45]